Experiments

Many labels in rodbuilding only make sense in the marketing department, the prime example being ‘spinning’ and ‘casting’ blanks. I have a long history of using fly blanks for long and light spinning. The other way around, obviously, has some appeal to me. After all, I like a fast rod, and I just wonder what a fast one piece blank for light lure fishing would do if rigged to cast a 5wt.

I’ll probably test that at some point, so stay tuned.

Meanwhile, some guy at NFC had just the same idea, only using a salmon blank for flinging a 10wt.

Worth noting: 7 guides, no more. I’m beginning to seriously doubt the x+1 theory (where x is the blank’s length in feet). Do I really need that much weight on the rod’s tip?

11 thoughts on “Experiments

    • oh yeah they are! or at least they mislead us!
      actually, any claim of the form ‘you can’t do x with y’ should be treated as highly suspicious unless supported by a rigorous proof. good question is: ‘says who?’

      my favorite example of all times (coming from my own field): there’s no abstract machine that could list (even if it took forever) all truths of a reasonably expressive language. seems rather obvious, but it took quite a genius to prove that indeed first order valid sentences are not recursively enumerable.

  1. this video doesn’t demonstrate anything because all the points are meaningless.

    guides- i admire thinking outside the box😎 however i’d like to offer a suggestion.
    instead of just thinking about how the rod reacts to guide placement under load (bent) why not also consider how line will both be pulled into the rod and more importantly how it will leave it (shooting line) when the rod is more or less straight.
    so few guides will not guide the line properly, (straight and smooth) but the line will ‘bunch up’ in the form of slack in between the guides creating friction. this always happens when the inter-guide space is too long.
    like on SL it’s good to take the extreme example of extreme distance casting to prove a point.
    even in the categories where home-made rods are allowed nobody reduces the number of guides to cast those distances for the reasons stated above.
    furthermore it’s pretty safe to say that not a single of the most experienced casters in the world could tell the difference in swingweight while casting between say a 11 guide rod and a 9 so that point is mute.

    for a very big improvement something i’ve been suggesting to manufacturers for years, without result… would be to find a way to add a ceramic coating to existing very small and fine fly rod guides without resorting to full rings like the average SIC that is too heavy.
    if you want to find out why just take one your gruesome all-SIC spinning rods and cast a fly line with itπŸ˜‰

    cheers,
    marc

    • very interesting thoughts Marc, thanks.
      as for the number of the guides, I wouldn’t suggest to reduce to 6, but rebuilding a RX6 with 9 instead of 10 made a noticeable difference on the wiggle test.
      when you say one can’t detect differences between 9 and 11 while casting, I guess the key notion here is ‘while casting’.
      without this proviso, I take it’s just false.
      now, when casting, there’s so much I have to take care of I really cannot pay attention to differences in swing weight. but I’m fairly convinced (until proven wrong by the analysis boys, but I doubt it would happen) that adding weight on the tip, everything else being equal, worsen tip bounce.
      so in my view, it’s a kind of trade off: line friction against tip bounce.

      But what’s the impact of reducing the number of guides? let’s take a 2743mm blank, with the stripper at a conventional — and convenient — 743mm from butt. that’s 2m to spread your guides on. the wisdom of nations asks for 10 guides, that’s 9 intervals of 222mm. let’s baldly reduce that to 8, that’s 7 intervals of 285mm, a 63mm difference. and that’s an average, since guides are not equally distributed. it’s a lot, but I’m not sure about the consequences in terms of friction.

      I quite like the idea of looking at distance comp to investigate, it’s like F1 for cars. but from where I look I have the impression that nobody pays that much attention to friction. I would never cast with the line coiled on the grass, because THAT induces loads of friction when shooting. is there a rule saying that the line must be on the grass? can’t you put a tarp or something?
      and I think that a vast majority of the guide-line friction is generated at the stripper, when the random coils of line shoot up through it. do the casters coil the line in a particular way? shouldn’t they?

      • “…and I think that a vast majority of the guide-line friction is generated at the stripper, when the random coils of line shoot up through it.”

        Yep!:

      • well, rods are made for casting, not wiggling:mrgreen:

        adding weight to the tip does indeed change the ‘feel’ of the rod. most proficient casters would not like it but some do. Bill Haneman (Mr. CCS) has even produced what he calls the ‘Feel-Fixer”, an attachable weight to customize the tip’s action.

        soft and short grass doesn’t seem to make a big difference but tarps, blankets and such are obviously better. some comps allow them, some don’t. some comps have a mandatory stripping basket which imo is always better because it’s higher and closer to the stripping guide: less distance to travel and if worn on the front, is less at an angle (more in line with the rods than a pile on the ground).
        i almost always use one to fish far and it makes for easier (less effort) casting.

        your comment: “I have the impression that nobody pays that much attention to friction” is pretty much spot on. even some of the best admit to never cleaning and treating their lines. ffs…

        in my unscientific opinion there’s two major areas where the most line friction occurs. at the tip and at the stripper. both mostly because the line comes and goes at angles instead of inline with the blank.
        but lets keep in mind that a little, or better yet, controlled friction can give better results in line control and loop formation. as a somewhat extreme example of this let’s look at the benefits of the triple haul or line check.
        many non-proficient casters will throw the line back on the presentation delivery and the loop doesn’t turn over well and dumps. this technique might be good for one who’s trying to get the farthest but it often f’s up because of this. most casters benefit from shooting the line from a ring made with the index and thumb. the line can’t go as far but it’s a clean and controlled loop because there’s friction…. πŸ˜€

        coils: some do and some don’t. Rajeff is pretty picky how his line is placed.
        i make two piles, one in front with the line to be shot and one to my side with the carried line. nothing’s really ideal but this works for me.

        cheers,
        marc

  2. Pingback: Friction | G0ne Fishin9

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